On Breaking New Ground in Holland Criticism. Or Not.

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I only just today got around to reading this Thursday post by Graham at Winging It In Motown.

I’ll give it this much: it comes at Ken Holland from a novel angle, at least. There’s a little flak fired off for inaction this summer, to be sure. But the main concentration of fan shell airbursts centers on suggesting that Holland should have found an opportunity to uncover and draft a player capable of replacing a once-in-League-history talent in Nick Lidstrom.

So, basically, he should have drafted Ryan Suter, Drew Doughty or some other similarly talented young defenseman that, you know, got drafted by teams closer to first in the draft order than the Wings. Or, apparently, a player who conveniently (miraculously) was ready to make the leap to top pairing minutes in the NHL the day Lidstrom hung them up.

Graham freely admits that doing this was hampered by the Wings constantly finishing high in the standings, so it’s unclear how exactly Holland was supposed to accomplish it. Maybe he should have magically traded up?

I don’t know. I’m not going to pretend this is the outcome I was hoping for (Suter being that). But every new post claiming this off-season is The One for Holland to just prove he’s the best in the business (usually accompanied by contradictory claims that the author already believes he is—just prove it again, okay, Kenny?) is really just another in a long line of calls for him to wave a wand that he does not have.

I more or less went over this yesterday. No amount of demanding Ken Holland prove himself is going to make this list any better. No amount of claiming Holland can’t coast along on past accomplishments makes the trade market light up. Now no matter how much second-guessing there is about the Wings’ draft strategy over the years, it doesn’t change the fact that other teams had first dibs on the top talent.

Was Brendan Smith not drafted with an eye to this day? But we’re to the point even Smith isn’t good enough.

I too would love to see “something that will knock our socks off”. But if we don’t get that, it does not itself demonstrate that Ken Holland has lost it.

Filed under: The Team

9 comments on “On Breaking New Ground in Holland Criticism. Or Not.”

  1. Mike on said:

    I think you misunderstood Graham’s point, or maybe I am because I’m not Graham. I think his point was that Holland did not properly prepare himself or his team for when Nicklas Lidstrom had left. That via draft, trade or FA acquisition, Ken Holland should have done more before Lidstrom retired, not after.

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    • Matt Saler on said:

      Mike, no, I got it—I’m reacting to that in the bits about the draft. Graham also lands on a demand that Holland do “something that will knock our socks off,” so there is a definite “after” component there, too.

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  2. Primis on said:

    The worst part is… Holland might have drafted that guy actually in Smith. We won’t know yet, because Smith probably should have played a lot more last year, then didn’t. He still might be that good, who knows? Heck, despite a lot of fans hating him, Kindl still could get in that direction even… he hasn’t exactly had tons of time on the big club either.

    If you want to criticize Holland I guess, criticize him for still not knowing if he *has* the guys to step up or not, because he has not played them or forced Babcock to play them. This year is the year Kenny’s policy of “over-ripening” propsects came back to bite him I guess.

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    • Matt Saler on said:

      Right, ranging from Kronwall to Kindl to Smith, we have a draft history of guys being lined up for Life After Lidstrom. And you’re right—the Overripe Doctrine could backfire. We’ll see, I guess.

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  3. Chris "@RedWingsLetty" Letterio on said:

    Honestly, I don’t see what is wrong with this team anymore. I think we will know more next off season.

    This is Kronwall’s year to show that he is the heir to Lidstrom’s throne. We all know he can hit and put up solid offense numbers and a little more wouldn’t hurt. He is at times liable in the d zone but that comes with more experience and now is the time to see if he has learned.

    Ian White is coming off a break out season, albeit it was spent on a line with Lidstrom a majority of the time, so now we get to see what he has learned from Lidstrom.

    Jonathan Ericsson, all I will say is this man was looked at our next prized possession and he hasn’t been close to it, we’ll see what he comes with this year.

    I can’t wait to see Smith fulltime. At times last year he showed that he was a rookie, but at times he looked like a 10-year vet. He will come into his own and probably start on the third pairing but find his way onto the top two pairings by seasons end.

    It seems like the Jakub Kindl project is over. But why? He was inconsistent the last two years but when you only play 40ish games each season, how can you get consistent?

    Ken Holland made a bad decision getting rid of Quincey. He blossomed in LA, looked good in Colorado and than sucked when he came back. Everyone figured he was going to gel instantly cause he should know the system. Its one thing to know the system and another thing playing it. He was away from the system for 3 and a half years. He needs to get back into it. Kyle Quincey will be better this year.

    You can make an arguement that really Detroit should sign maybe one defenseman. If the Wings could grab Kubina who is a stay at home d man and throw him on a line with Kronner, that gives Kronner the ability to continue being offensive.

    This defense isn’t a bad one. It may not be what we Red Wings fans are used to, but it definitely isn’t the worst.

    This is a conversation we should be having half way through the year.

    I have not lost my faith in Holland, what it is is that he has had to battle against players that wanna play closer to home and players that only care about money.

    It also sucks that some of the leagues top players play in the division so there is no way their teams would trade them to Detroit.

    Detroit isn’t done yet. Neither is Holland.

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    • Chris "@RedWingsLetty" Letterio on said:

      Going back to Quincey…look at his numbers from when he was traded from LA to Colorado…than look at his numbers the following year in Colorado, than his numbers after being traded to Detroit…pretty similar.

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    • Matt Saler on said:

      I’m with you on just about everything—but especially this:

      It also sucks that some of the leagues top players play in the division so there is no way their teams would trade them to Detroit.

      Even if they weren’t in the same division, it may have been hard to get a deal. But certainly the division ties really destroyed any chance of getting Weber and/or Nash.

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  4. Graham Hathway on said:

    https://twitter.com/onthewings/status/220583483326730241

    On July 5th you said (repeatedly) that the Wings would not make the playoffs and that a team with Kronwall and White as their 1-2 isn’t going anywhere regardless of forward corps, but it’s not ok to question the man that is ultimately responsible for building this roster? I don’t get that kind of logic.

    Matt, I respect you, and maybe those comments were just an emotional reaction to losing out on Suter. But I don’t understand why it’s not ok to lob some fairly tame criticisms at Ken Holland when, at least in my eyes, he hasn’t done anything to improve this team outside of continuing to bring in depth forwards while seeming to hope that the top players will maintain their level of excellence for years. Yes, Smith probably was drafted to eventually take over as the top d-man in Detroit. But if that’s the case, why hasn’t he been up with the Wings learning what it takes to be a NHL player?

    I don’t know. I think this is a very frustrating time for a fanbase that is not used to this kind of uncertainty. Personally, I see a team that has not gotten better since losing to Pittsburgh in ’09 and that’s the most concerning thing to me. At least you put some thought into why you disagreed with me and didn’t just call me a creepy verbal-stalker.

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    • Matt Saler on said:

      On July 5th you said (repeatedly) that the Wings would not make the playoffs and that a team with Kronwall and White as their 1-2 isn’t going anywhere regardless of forward corps, but it’s not ok to question the man that is ultimately responsible for building this roster? I don’t get that kind of logic.

      Graham, I respect you too, but I don’t view the realization that this team is likely headed for a playoff-less season and claims made about the context of the relative fruitlessness of Holland’s summer as contradictory positions.

      Yes, I believe the Wings could miss the playoffs this year. And, with Suter in Minnesota now, I also believe there’s not a whole lot Ken Holland can do about it. Or could have done. There is no realistic remaining move to be made that will come close to filling the gap left by Nick Lidstrom.

      I reject the premise that the Wings could have addressed this problem from the inside in a way that would have negated the need to find outside help to keep them at they level they have been at. Short of finding the next generation’s Lidstrom late in some round, the draft just doesn’t work that way.

      The reality of a post-Lidstrom world absent a Suter or Weber plug-in is a Red Wings team that is going to be very different from what we are used to seeing. It seems to me this is a transition the organization is preparing to make while we stand on the outside in disbelief.

      I don’t think Holland’s done on the market, but I wouldn’t expect a blockbuster move. More likely it will be something that bolsters a lineup that will have to play a different game, a rational move that aids that pivot.

      Yes, Smith probably was drafted to eventually take over as the top d-man in Detroit. But if that’s the case, why hasn’t he been up with the Wings learning what it takes to be a NHL player?

      As good as Smith is, he’s not the kind of player who could have made that leap out of college, because they never get their hands on that kind of talent in the draft.

      The Wings followed their usual practice of taking advantage of their success to avoid rushing young players along. Him getting big minutes in the AHL is him learning what it takes to be an NHL player, in the Wings’ book.

      It’s a philosophy with proven success and even in this situation, I don’t see a need to second-guess it here.

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