On Hossa

Posted by on . 14 comments

Brief thoughts on Hossa:

… I didn’t really want him to re-sign, so I’m not disappointed in that way. I am, however, disappointed in his choice of destination. Chicago is probably the only team in the League that I would have found offensive, and now I’m finding it hard not to be pissed at the guy. It’s hypocritical, I know, but I maintain that a decades-old rivalry trumps the hatred generated by losing to a team once in the Finals.

Again, any other team, I would have been fine, and that includes Anaheim.  Chicago, though? Not so much. This has far too direct an effect on the Wings’ to just let it float.

… Not sure how this works for Chicago going forward. Kane and/or Toews just got infinitely harder to re-sign, unless Tallon has their unofficial assurance that they won’t demand big bucks. If I were a Chicago fan, I’d be a mix of happy and completely incensed. Great to have Hossa, sucks to have the team’s future tossed out the window.

… Hossa’s a fool if he thinks Chicago offers a better shot at winning than the Wings. This was about the money. $20 million is a big difference, but so is the Cup. Unless Chicago pulls off a miracle cap-wise, the Hawks will be hard-pressed to beat smarter teams for the Cup, even in the next 12 years.

… Thanks for a good year, Marian. Good luck in Chicago. Hope you like it. You’ll be there for a while, whether you enjoy it or not.

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Comments

  1. Brian says:
    July 1, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    I think karma just got the better of many Wings fans who were already bragging about how they were going to be classy about Hossa leaving and wish him well. Let's see how that works over the next 12 years. It's like a puck in the face I bet:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEEk01OCFY
    And Penguins fans didn't just hate Hossa for leaving to Detroit. It was how he did it and what he said. He talked and talked like he was going to stay, and basically led Ray Shero on. Then Ryan Malone leaves to TBL, under the assumption the money wasn't available for him due to Hossa, then Hossa signs with the Wings. If he had just flat-out said he wasn't re-signing with the Penguins from day 1, fine. But he jerked the fans and organization around when he made it sound like he loved the team and wanted to stay but signed with the Wings in the next breath.

    I think we can all agree that he's turned into a tragic figure who, until he wins a Cup, will be laughed at. I wonder if Chicago fans will embrace the Hossa Song:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnzo0ZYWgmw
    It was probably my favorite part of his time with the Penguins…I never get tired of that video.

    Reply
  2. Brian says:
    July 1, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    And Tony Montana says it best: "Do you know what a 'Hossa' is Frank? A Hossa is a pig that don't fly straight" [Scarface]

    Reply
  3. Ionya says:
    July 2, 2009 at 5:37 am

    Kopecky went to the Hawks too

    Reply
  4. jvwalt says:
    July 2, 2009 at 6:16 am

    I really can't blame the guy much. He postponed his big payday for a chance at the Cup and it didn't work out; now, this is his chance to cash in. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. 

    So he left Detroit for Chicago. Now we know how the Pens fans feel about him. I can say this: given his playoff performance this year, I'd rather have him on the Hawks' books than on the Wings'. As you say, this may well hurt Chicago's chances of building a winner. 

    Reply
  5. Baroque says:
    July 2, 2009 at 6:34 am

    I can't blame him, either. Hossa was actually very honest about the whole thing – he wanted a chance to contend, and he wanted a long term deal like Zetterberg's so he could stop moving around, but he was willing to not break the bank.  That is exactly what he got.  It isn't as though he went to a lousy team for huge money and then started talking about how he wanted to be a part of building something when it was obvious that the money was the only thing he was looking at.  He got what he wanted, and if Detroit was able to give him that he would have stayed.

     

    Chicago now has their own one-year window before they have to dump players for cap reasons.  I think with this contract, Hossa has just been infused into the Blackhawks' core of players and one of the guys they had been considering as a core player is going to be loose next year (at least one).

    Reply
  6. Megan Saler says:
    July 2, 2009 at 8:33 am

    I would love for the Wings to be the team to beat the Hawks in the playoffs. You know that every move they made yesterday was designed to put them in a place to beat the Wings.

    Reply
  7. Andre says:
    July 2, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    Not sure how this works for Chicago going forward. Kane and/or Toews just got infinitely harder to re-sign, unless Tallon has their unofficial assurance that they won’t demand big bucks. If I were a Chicago fan, I’d be a mix of happy and completely incensed. Great to have Hossa, sucks to have the team’s future tossed out the window.

    I'm not sure how accurate that forecast is.

     

    I've been looking at the numbers and, bear in mind I'm no mathematician, but the Hawks didn't exactly lose hope of keeping Kane and Toews (as much as I would like to agree). A lot of this is pure speculation (especially the 5 for 15-20 deal I mention later), but a lot can change roster-wise in the next year too so it might even out.

     

    Going by the Hawk's salary numbers @ <a title="Third Man in" href="http://www.thethirdmanin.com/hawkspayroll.html&quot; rel="nofollow">Third Man In for 2010/11 here's what I'm coming up with. Campbell, Huet, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook, Bolland, Byfulien (sp?), Sopel, and Kopecky [nine players] combine for a cap hit of around $35.25 mil.

     

    By comparison, the Wings salary numbers @ <a title="Lets Go Wings" href="http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/index.php&quot; rel="nofollow">Lets Go Wings for 2010/11 are as follows: Datsyuk, Filpula, Cleary, Zetterberg, Draper, Franzen, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Osgood [11 players] combine for a cap hit of about $40 mil.

     

    I don't know what the cap will look like in 2010, so I'll assume something close to this year's $57 mil. That means that the Hawks will have $21.75 mil to fill 14 roster spots [$1.55 mil average / player], while the Wings will have $17 mil to fill 12 [$1.41 mil average per player].

     

    The big difference is that the 14 roster spots the Hawks have to fill will include decisions of whether or not to resign the following: Kane, Toews, Versteeg, Ladd and Keith. Assuming the Wings and Patroits aren't the only teams capable of convincing players to take less to win more, its concievable that the Hawks could resign these 5 for something between $15-20 mil.

     

    Now my assumptions certainly don't leave a lot of money left to fill the other 9 spots, but I don't think the Hawks are in a situation were some moves here and there don't help them keep a very good core together for a long time. Having said that, the Hawks front office thought they'd be able to move Khabi after picking Huet up and ended up carrying $10+ mil worth of goalie last year. Hopefully my math and such are correct, and I'd love to hear any feedback.

     

     

    Reply
  8. Matt Saler says:
    July 2, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    jvwalt and Baroque,

    I guess I don't blame him for taking the money and it is laudable that he went to a winner rather than a loser (though I disagree with IwoCPO that LA is automatically a loser–they're on the rise, and Hossa could have been a big part of that). It's just that he went to a Central Divsion rival, and not just any Central Division rival. It's the Chicago Blackhawks, and just at the time the age-old rivalry is heating up again. One-year mercenary or not, it's hard for me not to take that aspect of his departure as a knife in the back.

    I didn't want him back. He would have done something similar to the Wings that he'll end up doing to the Hawks (Tallon's obviously dreaming). But I wish it had been someplace else. All the moves Montreal made, he could have gone there and been on an Eastern competitor, for example.

    Meg,

    I completely agree. Nothing would be sweeter (except, of course, beating Pittsburgh).

    Andre,

    Good work running with the numbers. I have to disagree with this, however:

    … its concievable that the Hawks could resign [Kane, Toews, Versteeg, Ladd and Keith] for something between $15-20 mil.

    Kane and Toews, in particular, would have to take considerable discounts to make that happen and given that it'll be their first shot at big numbers, I find it hard to believe they'd take, say, half of their likely value. And who would blame them? Those two could command $7-8 million from some teams.

    It seems likely to me that at least one of them will take an offer sheet and bolt. Keith isn't quite so valuble, but he won't come cheap. The kind of loyalty and willingness to take significantly less to win that the Wings have created doesn't come easily or quickly. With other GMs around the League willing to throw millions at talent on par with Ladd and Versteeg, the Hawks will have to count on those guys buying in to the program for real. It remains to be seen whether or not they have.

    The Wings aren't in wonderful shape cap-wise next season, which is why I'm glad Hossa's gone. But they will have the benefit of Lidstrom likely taking a sunset deal that could free up as much as $6 million (optimistically). With the cap forecast alreaady to be going down, that will be huge.

    Reply
  9. Matt Saler says:
    July 2, 2009 at 4:30 pm

    Brian,

    Sorry your comment didn't show right off the bat. Went to spam and WordPress didn't tell me.

    Anyway:

    I think karma just got the better of many Wings fans who were already bragging about how they were going to be classy about Hossa leaving and wish him well. Let’s see how that works over the next 12 years. It’s like a puck in the face I bet:

    Yeah, there's a bit of that feeling in this, at least to me. As I've said, I didn't want him back, so it's not that he left.

    He talked similarly to the Wings and the fans. He came as a one-year man, but throughout the season, he fit here so well that it seemed like it could become a long-term situation. His departure's been all but certain since Franzen beat him to a contract, so subconsciously we've been prepared for it, but until the cap number was finalized, a lot of us though it could work out, including me. Since then, though, I'd dropped that outlook and just wanted him to go because signing him seemed like a mistake at that point.

    "Tragic figure" is probably too friendly at this point. He would have been tragic if he'd gone just about anywhere else, but hitching his wagon to Chicago doesn't exactly make me feel sorry for him.

    Reply
  10. Garth says:
    July 2, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    … its concievable that the Hawks could resign [Kane, Toews, Versteeg, Ladd and Keith] for something between $15-20 mil.

    Is it really conceivable?  I mean…really, it's conceivable to you that those five guys could sign for an average of $3-4M?

    Come on now…

    REALLY?

    I think it's conveivable that they get three of those guys for that price…maybe (and that's a GINORMOUS MAYBE) four if they let go of either Kane of Toews.

     

    And when you're comparing Chicago's situation to Detroit's, you also have to look at who Detroit needs to re-sign.  As much as I love Helm and Ericsson, they're not likely to be demanding the type of deal Kane, Toews and Keith will.  And Howard, barring a HUGE year, won't be demanding much of a raise.

    And we don't have one of the most overpaid goalie or D-man, either.

     

    Reply
  11. Garth says:
    July 2, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    If he had just flat-out said he wasn’t re-signing with the Penguins from day 1, fine. But he jerked the fans and organization around when he made it sound like he loved the team and wanted to stay but signed with the Wings in the next breath.

     

    What a friggin joke.  He was a free agent.  He was testing the free agent waters.  THAT'S WHAT FREE AGENTS DO.  He didn't jerk anyone around, he negotiated with teams and decided what was best for him.

    Reply
  12. Andre says:
    July 3, 2009 at 6:24 am

    Garth, et al.

     

    First, I highly qualified my statement as pure speculation re: the possibilty of the Hawks resigning those 5 players. I don't know what its like in the Hawks' locker room or whether or not these players are willing to sacrifice some salary for a chance to lock up a great core, but i think its at least as concievable as the assumption that Kane and Toews are going to want to "cash in".

     

    Even if they did expect to cash in, I think we've seen plenty of examples now of contract structuring that allows for front loading while keeping the cap hit low. Toews and Kane might have market values north of $7 mil, but I would say the same about Zetterberg and maybe Franzen, both of whom's cap hits are significantly lower than market. All I'm trying to say is that counting on a cash grab on their part might be naive and/or might not matter with Hossa/Zetterberg style contracts.

     

    There's also plenty of time for Hawks management to move some pieces to make this work, if contract structuring isn't enough. I really doubt that they went into this thinking that they would sign Hossa at the expense of even one of their two young stars. That's obviously our hope as Wings fans, but there's plenty of things that could happen, from players taking less to stay / to moving some of the bigger contracts, for this to work.

     

    I'm not happy that they were able to make this move, but I will acknowledge that for the time being, its a fantastic move on their part and I think we should prepare ourselves for the possibility that the Hawks core will be very good for a long time. This might shape up to be one of the best rivalries in hockey, if not all of sports.

    Reply
  13. Graeme says:
    July 3, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    I am mildly annoyed he went to Chicago, just because everyone seems to be staying in the West and most of them are sticking in the Division. 

    I think it's probably good for Chicago, and therefore it's good for the NHL.  That's a potentially huge hockey market now they're back on TV & fielding a team.  That should generate more fans than a Phoenix team EVER will. 

    I didn't want Hossa back.  I mean, he came for a Cup.  He also came to the Wings because he didn't want to have to be a team leader.  He didn't have to be a leader, but he still played a lame game when it mattered.  I don't miss him, and I'm glad the Wings couldn't get a deal done. 

    I have to disagree strongly about Anaheim.  I hate the Ducks far more than I hate the Blackhawks, even given Lidstrom's testicle situation.  I'm not the only one, it seems.  In casual conversations with other Wings fans, Anaheim seems to be taking Colorado's place as the most hated team in the West.  I DESPISE the Ducks.

    That said, I'm glad to see Pronger moved to the East, though what Anaheim got in return makes me sick to my stomach.  With the Olympics and the fact that the Western Conference is getting loaded up, the playoffs next year are going to be a hell of a dogfight!

    Next summer the Wings will get to go on the shopping spree they're being denied now.  I think the tough season just about to start will be good, in that it will identify what they're really going to need to spend money on.

    Reply
  14. Matt Saler says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:11 am

    Graeme,

    I hate Anaheim more than Chicago as well, but it's the direct effect that this signing will have on the Wings that gets me. Out on the West coast, Hossa could have done a lot of damage, but in the same Division, he can do a lot more. I'm not sold on his ability to tear it up in the playoffs, so I'm not talking about Playoff Anaheim here. Or Playoff Chicago. I'm talking about the race for the Central Division.

    Reply

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